Coach Tackles Questions on Favre, Offense
Published: Wed, October 22, 2008 - 1:38pm ET
By Randy Lange
Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
File Under: Eric Mangini, Kansas City Chiefs, Brett Favre, Oakland Raiders, Detroit Lions
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10/22 — Topic A at today's news conference with head coach Eric Mangini was more like Topic BFO as in Brett Favre's offense.
Such leading questions are going to happen when you've got one of the legendary QBs leading an offense to 418 yards of offense but only 13 points in an overtime loss to a 1-4 team. Mangini parried several thrusts from reporters about Favre and the offense.
On if there is something offensively that the Jets can "hang their hat on"...
"I think what you're looking for is balance. Some games you're going to throw six touchdowns, some games you're going to rush for 8 yards a carry. Either one of those are really positive things. The end result or what you're looking for is to be able to score points. More than anything else we need to convert those red zone opportunities, eliminate penalties — those things that kill drives."
On the lack of downfield throws the last two games...
"It's always a coordinated effort where you've got to be able to run a good route, you've got to be able to hold up in protection, you've got to be able to make the right read. Some teams have made the decision to put more support in those areas, which open up other things like the running game where you can average 7, 8 yards a carry."
All leading up to a leading question: "Brett's at the lowest of his career with 9.9 yards per completion. ... Is your offense too conservative?"
"I think as we go into each week, we discuss the game plan," Mangini said. "It's a collaborative effort. It's never something that's just jammed down the throats of the players. It's all a part of trying to figure out what's the best way to achieve success. The numbers are going to vary throughout the course of the season and the course of time."
One observation about that last question. It is true that Favre is averaging 9.93 yards per completion in his first six games as a Jet. And it is convenient — I'm sure I've done it — to match that kind of a number of with all the season averages of a particular player's team's history. For Favre, the lowest such average was the 10.39 yards per completion in his second season as a Packer, 1993.
But to be fair, you need to match like with like, or qualify your statement: In this case, to say that if Favre continued to average less than 10 yards per completion over the final 10 games, it would be the lowest figure of his career. Don't compare six games to all other 16-game seasons and say he's having the worst season of his career because that's cooking the books.
Now it is surely true that Favre has had very few six-game stretches in his storied 17 seasons where he's averaged less than 10 yards per completion, but it has happened. Most notably, in the first six games of 2003, his average was 9.85 yards per completion and the Packers were 3-3 in those games.
From there, despite breaking his right thumb in Game 7 of the '03 season, he finished with an 11.67 average over the final 10 games, during which the Pack went 7-3 and made it to the NFC Divisional Round of the playoffs.
All this is a way of saying the questions about conservative offense and downfield throws are OK, as long as they don't imply that the sky is falling on the offense, Favre is done or he's being misused. I could be wrong but I feel confident in predicting that the final 10 games this season will feature a passing attack that comes in solidly over 10 yards per completion, especially if the running game continues its upward trend.
And the chances of that happening Sunday vs. the Chiefs' 32nd-ranked run defense are fairly good.
Favre and the Lions
The other Brett-related story angle today is the ongoing story of whether or not Favre assisted Detroit in preparing for its Week 2 meeting vs. Green Bay, and if so, how much. Eric Allen took in Favre's weekly news conference this morning and will have a story for newyorkjets.com shortly.
But Mangini was ready for such questions. He didn't dwell on the subject but he asserted that information sharing in the NFL is not uncommon.
"From my experiences, the benefit is pretty marginal," the coach said. "What's really important is being able to look at the tape, see what they're doing. ... The gain you get from that is pretty small."
A questioner stretched to suggest that somehow, if this story is true — which Favre says it isn't —that somehow he's not preparing as well as he could for the Jets, Mangini replied:
"I know that Brett prepares as thoroughly as anybody else. I don't monitor guys' free time, so they can spend it any way they want."
Ding, Ding
Two keys to the offensive performance for Kansas City and the games to follow are the physical conditions of two key contributors, WR Jerricho Cotchery and RT Damien Woody. Mangini said Cotchery has a shoulder injury and Woody a leg injury but wouldn't say how much if at all they would work on the field today.
"The plan is always for them to practice," the coach said. "I'll meet with the trainers after I meet with you guys [reporters] and see where they are."
The Jets' and Chiefs' first injury reports of the week will be posted on newyorkjets.com sometime after 4 p.m.
Housekeeping
The Jets made a practice squad exchange, releasing T Stefan Rodgers, who was signed Sept. 10, and re-signing TE Brad Listorti, who was also signed to the P-squad Sept. 10 but released 13 days later.
The other Brett-related story angle today is the ongoing story of whether or not Favre assisted Detroit in preparing for its Week 2 meeting vs. Green Bay, and if so, how much. Eric Allen took in Favre's weekly news conference this morning and will have a story for newyorkjets.com shortly.
Fans Respond
Here's your chance to tell Randy what you think! Add a Comment | Hide All Show All (44)teresa Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 2:47pm ET"Someone has set out to destroy Favre's reputation...I think GB planted this story to get their own team motivated because they aren't that great even though they think they are...The Bears (I hope) will take that division... If they give the Packer team these lies about Favre it will add fuel to all of their tanks....they want to ruin any chemistry between Favre and the JETS!"
mike ex jet fan Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 2:48pm ET"Correction optimists.. Houston isn't expansion team be4 u all jump down my throat.. None the less same principle"
Ira Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 2:57pm ET"Randy, I don't want this Lions story to become a distraction for this weeks game.But of course i can see all the front pages of tomorrows papers with favre on the front pages and that will be the leading story. Let them rest J-Co and let Clowney get some playing time this week. They can beat the Chiefs with woody and J-CO resting and getting healthy for the Bills."
uncle joe Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 3:03pm ET"Yeah,Just got my New Jets Kid Book and that pink Jets jogging suit.My 2 1/2 year old daughter is ready for Sunday.The Kids book sticks out like a sore thumb in her pink room.Jets this year are 3-0 when she sports her team so any losses from here on are my wife's fault(she takes the Jersey off when she goes out during the games)."
mike ex jet fan Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 3:10pm ET" Ray . I am all over the place cause there so much wrong with the team .. It would take more years then I have left . Need to get it out now be i die .. & again I will say.. LOOK.. up any stat u want about this team & then tell me your opinion 90% negative .. Your problem is busy correcting me instead of the real problem ..BTW I do Keep with the articles at hand just a different opinion"
uncle joe Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 3:17pm ET"Would love to see Chatman get some work this week and if we dont have to,I'll take an average of 4 yards a pass this week.Don't care if we win 10 nothing,just win,save Farve's arm,rest our hurting players and get ready for Buffalo.Not overlooking KC or anything but HERM,come on now!"
scjoe Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 3:56pm ET"You can look at all the stats you want, the comp percentage, the yards per comp. etc. The one that I was most concerned with when they signed Favre was the INTs I am even more concerned now. I honestly believe it has cost us two games already. I know all you Favre fans will disagree, but those are the facts."
jak jak,ex packer fan new jet fan Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:01pm ET"ill probably remain a jet fan after favre retires, until jets do something as treacherous to a star longtime player as gb did to favre. so ill buckle up for the long haul . i was a bears fan from late 70s to 86. then they traded away wilbur marshall, uugh. bears had a tremendous defense and right away traded an intrical cog to that defense , plus the next year they got rid of more great players."
Row Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:04pm ET"I don't have anything really negative to say about the game on Sunday, I do want to say that if Mangini loses to Herm, he should be fired on the spot. I guarantee dominance at all aspects of the game this Sunday. Defense should score, we'll probably run one back, Miller will get some time, Favre will feel good. One thing to worry about is their speed at LB. We will have to run between the Tackles."
southernlady Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:13pm ET"I need to understand something, Randy, are you saying that Favre is to blame for his poor passing averages? There is no mention about the fact that yes as one other person wrote he does have a high int average, but what about the O-Line? I just need to understand what the people in New York are thinking because it seems to me that they got beat on all sides of the game, not only the QB. "
Randy Lange Said:
"As Eric Mangini would say, southernlady, it's a combination of things. All are free to speculate as to what the primary cause is, although as I said, I don't think Brett is done throwing the ball downfield."
Tom Spicer Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:20pm ET"Mike the ex Jet fan slow down dude you are rambling on & on I know some guys can not understand you cause sometimes I cant. The Jets GM & ownership have done alot to improve the team I do not remember the last time we had such a good off season Favre missed all of the OTA'S all of training camp & most of the pre season "
jak jak,ex packer fan new jet fan Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:21pm ET"to uncle joe i like your comments on all of your posts ive read. win jets win . also loved the name weeb ubanks when i was a child in late 60s. weeb cool."
Tom Spicer Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:25pm ET"The Jets really only have 3 problems & they will be ok 1 the pass blocking is bad only 1 game did they pass block well or else every game Favre is under constant heat I think our O line has under performed we have 4 1st round picks on the line they should earn all that big money they make 2 Sutton has to blitz look at Pittsburgh they bring at least 1 LB on every pass play we can not rush 3 & put "
sal cottone Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:34pm ET"the game plan on offence has been pathetic for years, calling same style the last few years last year for as complicated the make it seem its pretty lame. Henning had the last productive offence, and testerverde was no spring chicken, as for the nfl network, they stooped to all time low saying favre is a trader to green bay, the rocket left boston, no difference"
sal cottone Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:47pm ET"and another thing, i like kellen clemet working behind farve then pennington, they are the same type, shotenheimer is at fault w/ offence dont kid yourself, fancy terminoligy and formations dont equal sucess north and south guy, not east and west , dont have the players for that stuff, they are good north and south"
Drew Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:48pm ET"As bad as the Chiefs are you know Herm is going to pull his rah-rah, pom-pom speech this week. You know the....the Jets are hurting and they think they can get back on track against us garbage. Mangini better prepare this team to get out quick and discourage them early. They are loaded with young players just looking for a reason to matter. Need to dominate this game from kickoff!!"
Tom Spicer Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 5:56pm ET"heat on the QB 3r Schotty has to do a better job he is calling the play book for Chad he has to call plays that show Favres strengths"
mike ex jet fan Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 6:39pm ET" What's with this story Favre is talking to Matt millen Tony Romo making a big to do over nothing .. Favre said they called him & I believe that to be the truth .. Guess these Sportscasters will go to any length for ratings.. Even heard 1 of them say it will destroy his legacy imagine that"
jak jak,ex packer fan new jet fan Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 6:56pm ET"somehow my first comment did not get posted. here goes gb 48 det 25 wether favre gave info or not ,point is moot as lions lost. gb front office treated favre bad ,at end. used no. 1 pick drafted rodgers knowing they were gonna replace favre. rodgers so far is successful only against poor defences. gb will be lucky to be 8-8 . not 13 -3 like favres last season there"
Jared Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 9:03pm ET"Who cares if Brett talked to the Lions. All I care about is that he gets rid of the ball faster. Yeah the Oline has been bad on passing downs but some of those sacks belong to #4 for holding the ball to long. I have faith he will bounce back, hes only done it a million times. Plus, if we avg 8 yards a carry this week, maybe at least 1 play action pass would be a good idea. Step it up Schotty!"
fljetfan Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 9:30pm ET"Who cares about detroit story? I,ll lay odds N.E. dont lose to sorry oakland, they no how to gameplan. thats whats aggravating about our team to me. No brady, we got farve, they find ways to win, we find ways to lose. still scratching my head. afc loss no less, probably kill us in the end on ties, if it even matters!"
Ray Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 3:02am ET"mike ex your all over the place because you don't have one coherent thought. you rant about blogs from three days ago. I toy with you because I can't wait to see what disjointed nonsensical theory you will dazzle everyone with next. Your fun to mess with because the madder you get the further out there you go! "
Drew Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 5:09am ET"Cant agree more...who cares who he talked to. I would have cared even less if we would have won last Sunday. I need Favre to go out and throw for TD's and yards as long as he isnt calling it quits who gives a crap. So tired of these dumb side stories....."
uncle joe Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 8:38am ET"Hey Randy,did it bother you to have to have that Coaches Club Radar advertized up there for so long?We know it's not you,you're still The Man!"
Frank Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 9:51am ET"Gee Ray the comments you make about ex mikey boy is the same way I feel about you and your comments. Stick with the facts and you'll never be wrong. So stop acting like a "man-child" and make a valid assessment and argument based on facts or opinion rather than attacking the messenger. Your love affair for Mangini is quite obvious."
Frank Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 9:57am ET"Drew the problem with your bad road loss scenerio is the fact that Mangini never wins any tough games that the Jets are not supposed to win. This team manages to barely hang on win or lose. All the elite teams lose bad road games but they destroy other opponents and win games they are not favored to win."
Frank Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 10:02am ET"Drew here is last weekend in a snapshot it's the "bad news Jets". Special teams the worst game in years. Washington had a awful game, muffed punt and dropped Favre pitch out. Favre another red zone int., Woody the worst game a LT could ever have he was atrocious with Brick not too far behind. Baker falling down on what would have been a game winning pass in OT and Bonehead penalties..."
Frank Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 10:09am ET"...the bottom line Drew is the team plays extremely uptight and conservative creating all the mental errors and leaving no margin for error. This team has way too much talent to be playing as poorly as they have shown and that is a direct reflection on the coaching staff."
Hogan Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 11:03am ET"We need to stop thinking about the other teams as being easy. If they have the 32nd or 1st ranked defence does not efect how they will play us. THERE ARE NO EASY WINS IN THE NFL!!!!!!"
Bethany Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 11:26am ET"Poor Brett. I think it's a pretty lame attempt on Green Bay's part to have him blackballed from the NFL and probably removed from becoming a Hall of Famer. Sounds like management in Packerland has nothing better to do than try to destroy his character. Eric Mangini needs to let Brett do what he does best. Sure, the gunslinger needs to be tamed down (remember last year?), but let him throw!!"
sal cottone Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 11:45am ET"jay Glazzer is trying to get in the headlines, with this to do about nothing headlines, does he have a tap on bretts phone/i bet he is behind the source for the call to romo which was from romo, find glazzers sources, and get rid of these to do about nothing headline ps brett answered one football question in yesterdays press confrence"
uncle joe Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 12:27pm ET"Come on Frank.How bout year 1&2 after the bye.NE,PITT,any of those not supposed to wins ring a bell.Who do you want as a Coach?Woody was hurt last week and Brick didn't play that bad,he actually looks pretty good this year!"
Ray Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 12:48pm ET"Wow Frank, I thought maybe you had gotten lost in the wilderness. Sorry if me calling you out on your man crush on Favre hurt, but you have never seen me in here professing undying faith in Mangini. I will defend him sometimes when things in here get outrageous. That's just to try and bring a little balance to the argument. So what facts have I not stuck to exactly? You mean like saying Brett"
Ray Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 1:05pm ET"had a hand in the loss to Oakland? Like defending Lowery? Like saying I don't like our 3rd down D? Because I haven't thrown in the towel on the season, this team or the coach yet? I'll attack the messenger everytime their message is so skewed that it needs correcting. If you throw out "facts" that are patently wrong, I will bring it up. I don't like how the season has gone so far either but"
mike ex jet fan Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 1:07pm ET"Frank -- Thank god there's another person here that understands what the real problem is.. more important to them to point out every1 elses flaws ...not the real flaw that is mangini underachieving Players & bonehead plays... Not here to make friends just vent about the long suffering that is the jets "
Ray Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 1:17pm ET"I refuse to point my finger solely at Mangini and the coaching staff. Why should I sit here and say nothing when people bash players (VG, LC) with comments that imply they know what is going on inside the locker room or that guys head? That goes beyond opinion. I vent during the games. I vent on the phone with friends after. I don't vent in here because there is already so much negativity."
al from wi Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 2:41pm ET"I agree jay Glazzer is just another media guy looking for some more garbage. It would be my guess that GB ted thompson is behind all of the efforts to smear Farve. Do you think MM will name his new baby ted? As for wooodson he always has had a big mouth so one has to consider the source. Jets kick butt sunday. and maybe cut brett a little slack. a couple of long balls"
sal Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 4:23pm ET"3rd down D is missing Jenkins in the Middle, 3rd down scares me too"
southernlady Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 6:26pm ET"I think this whole Lions thing is dumb. I mean who cares (other than the Packers) if Brett gave out info or not. They traded him they didn't gag him. If they actually think he will not get in the Hall of Fame, I don't care what happens this year, they are mistaken. The records are the records and he has broken just about all of them and that's not anything that anyone can take away, even Ted."
Patricia J. Anderson Said:
Thu, October 23, 2008 - 11:09pm ET"I feel so sorry for Brett Favre. They love to crucify anybody who has always been beyond reproach and so whatever he does it is looked at too much. I only wish Mr. Favre and the Jets the very very best and pray they do well for the rest of the season. Good luck to all of you. "
Drew Said:
Fri, October 24, 2008 - 2:32am ET"Frank...I know it was 2006 but Mangini did win 2 games on the road that he was 7+ point underdog.(NE and GB) and again last yr with Pitt.. 3 games he clearly out coached the opposition. So to say he never wins a game he is not supposed to win is wrong.Your game recap seems to be close to what my brother told me so I put this loss on Mangini. Can't defend the loss other than it was a bad loss."
Kathy Said:
Fri, October 24, 2008 - 4:22pm ET"I think this whole Lions thing is stupid. I mean who cares (other than the Packers) if Brett gave out info or not. They traded him they didn't gag him. If they actually think he will not get in the Hall of Fame, I don't care what happens this year, they are mistaken. The records are the records and he has broken just about all of them and that's not anything that anyone can take away, even Ted."
BOBI Said:
Sat, October 25, 2008 - 9:17am ET"When the Jets are winning praise flows. When the Jests are losing it is suddenly Brett is too old and/or Mangini to blame. How about giving these guys a break. They are finding their way. They want to win and they want to win as a team! Brett is not the only one on the field. It still takes protection and receivers to catch what is thrown!!! They'll win Sunday."
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FavreFan4Ever Said:
Wed, October 22, 2008 - 2:28pm ET"When Brett admitted he wanted to join the Vikings just so he could beat the Pack it showed me again what I always knew about him. He openly acknowledged that was a wrong reason and he has more class than that. It also shows a basic human trait...that he is a human. When I heard this rumor I just couldnt imagine him doing such a thing. This is nothing more than smoke to try to smear a legend."
Offensive Comment?